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Hyphens between Roman Numerals

Hi, Dan. The question mark doesn't seem to work between the Roman numerals in the Finale Lyric tool, because they do not automatically center themselves between two adjacent notes when there are no other notes between them. In other words, I need what the hyphen command does with the superscript numbers, except it is too high for the Roman numerals

I tried to add illustrations, but without success. Is it possible to upload examples here that one can place within the post that one can preview?  And is it possible to delete a post?


Thanks John, I’ll take a look at that. I know the centered “minus” is important.

Yes, you should be able to upload images, though I’m not sure exactly how yet. I’ll ask Philip.

Ok, I understand what you're asking now that I re-read it.

There's no way to automatically center the line, I'm afraid. That's an exclusive function of the lyric tool. You might try this trick: Lyrics without notes. | Finale Forum. You could enter that question glyph at a specific rhythmic position by placing a hidden note. Or use a non-breaking space to estimate its position.

Dorico allows you to enter lyrics at any rhythmic position, whether there's a note there or not, but Finale does not.

Thanks, Dan.  Just so I understand.

The hyphen now centers itself and is at the proper height for the superscript numerals within the Lyric tool. Are you saying that only the hyphen glyph can center itself in the Lyric tool? And that since you used it up for the superscript numerals, there isn't another glyph that you could create that centers itself at the proper height for the Roman numerals?

If so, simply placing an expression or articulation hyphen in the required place might be the easiest workaround.

When I upload files below, they seem to disappear because I never see them in the body of the post.

Yes that’s correct. Finale can only process one unique glyph as a native hyphen, and in this case it’s a superscript hyphen.

I understand your request and it makes sense, but I think it’s simply a limitation of Finale (FWIW, Dorico has the same limitation).

Thanks, Dan.  I will now complete the Schenker example using your final version, and post it at to show what MusAnalysis can do.  I would like to also post it here if that is possible and desired.

I hope that MusAnalysis reaches a wide audience, Dan.  It is so useful.

Great, thanks!

Quote from jruggero on May 16, 2021, 11:47 am

Thanks, Dan.  I will now complete the Schenker example using your final version, and post it at to show what MusAnalysis can do.

I saw that over at By the way, John, I did find out that Finale reserves the caret in lyric entry for its own purposes. I've kept the existing key combinations for ^1, ^2, and so on, but I've added for Finale users: &s1, &s2, etc ("s" for "scale degree," I guess). Also &s1s for small scale degree.

Here's that beta, version 1.3:

By the way, I tried my hand at your example in Dorico, using MusAnalysis:


Very nice engraving, Dan.  I would suggest putting the measure numbers in a different and/or smaller font so they don't compete with the scale-step numbers; but that might require text and I know you are showcasing MusAnalysis.  And thanks for solving the ^issue and for the small scale-degrees, which will come in handy. I'll try out your new version of MusAnalysis later.

I tried to post my own example here to show the Finale version, but it appears to be a thumbnail.  How does one make it appear full size in the body of the post?




Uploaded files:
  • Mozart-All-turca-Schenker.jpeg

I’m not sure... I just up uploaded the image and saved the post!

I could add time-signature-style numerals to MusAnalysis, if you think there would be a common need for them.

Definitely add those numerals, Dan.  It would be very helpful.

I notice that your file is a GIF. I tried jpg and png but neither works. Does one have to use the GIF format?



PNG should work too, I’m not sure.

Quote from jruggero on May 19, 2021, 10:33 pm

Definitely add those numerals, Dan.  It would be very helpful.

John, I've added them to this current build. Time-signature-style numerals 0–9 are &t0, &t1, &t2, etc. Time-signature numerals with scale degrees 1–8 are &ts1, &ts2, etc.

All your new additions are working fine over here, Dan.

Is it possible for the caret over the small scale steps to be in a smaller size to match the numbers?

Back to ^= for the small equal sign. Is that something that could be handled with &s=

I just tried a GIF with the same unsatisfactory result. I would like to continue over here, but need to be able to insert images into the text.



Hi John,

I added &= as the superscript equals sign. I don't think I want to make the caret smaller for the smaller numbers... I'll think about that.

Regarding the images... I prefer to use ScreentoGif (Windows) and upload it automatically to imgur. On Mac, you can find similar programs. One common one is LICEcap. Then you just insert the image as a URL.

Thanks, Dan.  If that's the only way to do it, I'll just content myself with thumbnails. Ars longa, vita brevis.

Hi John,

I've added accidentals for triple-stacked numerals. They're their own column: % plus any combination of b, n, or # (and s for space). You can also do % with < or > (but not mix < and >). Would you be willing to give this a quick test?


Sorry, Dan. I haven't been checking over here for a while. Hope you got your test.  If not, please post again.